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| Author | Topic: World Guppy Standard |
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| oemer Knows this place  ID # 2  |
 Posted: 10. February 2006 14:10   Quote  PM  Mail  Homepage Hello, the discussion in the German Forum shows that we should try to set up a "standard" as a first step. Dereck already posted that we could use the show in the UK as a sandbox for that new standard. Regards Ömer |
Posts: 61 | Registered on:: February 2005 | IP: Saved | |
| Luke Stops by from time to time ID # 13 |
Posted: 11. February 2006 05:02 Quote PM Mail Homepage Omer, Before we progress into more confusion; We need to differentiate between the meaning of the words "Standard" and "Rules" Standards should never be changed by none other that the Respective Judging Boards and standard creators of each respective region!! That can lead to a whole set of new complications. Rules can be changed to incorporate existing unchanged standards from each region, that are already set in stone! ----------------------- Luke's Show Guppies, A California Gene Bank! |
Posts: 29 | Registered on:: February 2005 | IP: Saved | |
| willi Just discovered this forum ID # 56  |
Posted: 11. February 2006 19:22 Quote PM Mail Homepage Hello hatch, thus with these Conputeruebersetzerei get ahead we not correctly! There individual words are wrongly shown! Again which I already wrote in the German forum: If we want to play together a play, and the other hand ball and are not arranged according to chess rule, from people those can play not the one football the rules not to know! That can be done inclined! MfG Willi -----------------------  |
Posts: 5 | Registered on:: February 2006 | IP: Saved | |
| Luke Stops by from time to time ID # 13 |
Posted: 11. February 2006 21:08 Quote PM Mail Homepage Willi, Guppies are not adaptable sportsmen! Not all IFGA guppies can play to IKGH standards and the fish cannot change to meet different standards. Europe already has a common standard as does USA. However considering the original idea of the WGC ten years ago ( ask Omer, Hide, Issi and Rodrigo to remind you) we are not trying to "reinvent the wheel" there is already IKGH competition in Europe we can enter if we want to play by those rules!! We want to do a TRULY WORLDWIDE COMPETITION where every SHOWGUPPY has a fair chance at competing. A doppel swort cannot be a Triangle. IFGA fish cannot be IKGH and vici versa. ( the only exception is the younger USA triangle and swordtail fish who are still growing and meet 8/10:1 body/caudal ratio. (smart breeders of both standards already know this) Ideal IFGA loses points in WGC for too large caudal, dorsal body etc... Taiwan sailfins are not even recognised under the current WGC standards. Why do you think we had a big disagreement on the TW WGC results from some of the contestants there? (Would you like to see more entries of Voll rot from TW???) Therefore we have to incorporate the different world standards into one WGC Ruling!! The common denominator is the Pointing to 100. Ideal guppy is 100 to its respective standard whether USA, SG, Germany Euro or TW! ----------------------- Luke's Show Guppies, A California Gene Bank! |
Posts: 29 | Registered on:: February 2005 | IP: Saved | |
| oemer Knows this place ID # 2 |
Posted: 12. February 2006 01:28 Quote PM Mail Homepage Dear Luke, I guess you are right at the point that we will not be able to find a common standard. So we shouldn't talk about the Standard anymore, but about the rules. Your proposal is almost the same like Hans-Peters. I would like to know if the others would like to go that way too? As far as I remember Brazil, Taiwan, Japan, Singapore would agree this way. Regards Oemer |
Posts: 61 | Registered on:: February 2005 | IP: Saved | |
| willi Just discovered this forum ID # 56 |
Posted: 12. February 2006 12:10 Quote PM Mail Homepage Hello hatch, if we want to issue together, then we need in addition the same rules! , for already before the reasons specified by me no way leads past! Regards Willi  ----------------------- |
Posts: 5 | Registered on:: February 2006 | IP: Saved | |
| heimo Just discovered this forum ID # 61 |
Posted: 13. February 2006 23:16 Quote PM Mail Hi everybody, I think that Luke (thank you for your open and direct words!) has mentioned an important point: We do have standards and we are free to talk about the rules, i.e. how to use the existing standards in a way which is fair for all the participants. I have not found Hapeens proposals here (well, I've just become a member of this forum), but they might be close to this: Every partcipant must indicate the standard that has to be applied to his/her fish, e.g. I would write something like: To be judged following the IHS. So we finally have a number of winners in each standard (IHS, IFGA, another one?). In a second "walk-through" an equal number of american, european and asiatic (I hope my english can be understood, sorry!) judges chose the overall-winners a) of every standard-form (spadetail, roundtail, DS...) and b) among them the best of show. Or the best of show could be choosen by the public... ----------------------- Best regards from heimo |
Posts: 2 | Registered on:: February 2006 | IP: Saved | |
| Luke Stops by from time to time ID # 13 |
Posted: 19. February 2006 00:14 Quote PM Mail Homepage Hello Heimo, Everyone, I tend to be against the change to 5 matching males for some compelling reasons. It would be much more difficult to obtain and ship entries overseas for that many more fish. Shipping overseas is aready not an easy task. There are many problems to consider which I dont need to mention here. More fish per entry means less entries and more chances of deaths in transit per entry. Your auctions will not be near as sucessful as I for one a main buyer will not want to purchase only males without females. Pairs are the best way to go. I am speaking directly from the position of being one of the main shipers of show entries and the USA shipper As for Best of Show well there are several viewpoints. You can setup regional BOS's or have one overall on points and maybe a "People's Choice" for Best in Show. I dont think that untrained visitors can truly judge a BOS ( the odd shaped fin classes would suffer and only big flashy colorful fish, irregardless of standard conformance, would win)or else Pet store strains would be more attractive than show strains,however, a Peoples Choice would work. ----------------------- Luke's Show Guppies, A California Gene Bank! |
Posts: 29 | Registered on:: February 2005 | IP: Saved | |
| Ziviani Just discovered this forum ID # 62 |
Posted: 04. March 2006 06:54 Quote PM Mail Homepage Hi Guys I would see in Germany that most of judges have the same points to same entries, Willi did you remember that we judged together the same fish and our notes were almost the same? same think happened with me and Luke , so we are in the right way, some judges see small details diferrent from others but the final score is almost the same, my opinion is we need to judge everything and make a media score from group of judges (Asia, North America, South America , Europe for ex. Five groups), maybe a seminary before the show would be nice to we can try to be closer our way of judging. I know, is very difficult to change but we need to open our minds because our hobby is increasing, some new strains are coming, new patterns so every show we need to talk about it, for ex points to hi fins why not will do it? here in Brazil we have a special class to moscows, maybe next year a grass class, we are including the most popular strains bred at least for a minimun number of breeders. Swallows will be judge separeted in female class. The integration is very strong now,breeders are becoming closer all over the world and the challenges are becoming harder too. Genetic bank be sharing and we can create a wonderfull new strains very fast, so we need to be fast to see it and give the potential breeders a incentive, not that breeder which only reproduce the strain but that breeder who had difficult work to create and improve new and stablished lines. Oemer you have a tool in your hand, change the standards and rules are difficult, but we need to try to find the same goal and grow up together, here in Brazil, or Taiwan or USA. Our next show we will make WGA entries and IFGA entries , the strains are the same but the way of judge will be diferrent, WGC rules= couples and 12 standards together IFGA rules= IFGA system points and classes to can show to our members how to procedure in both ways,... one thing will be the same, the best fish will win.... I think I talk a lot... regards to you my friends Rodrigo Ziviani ----------------------- Rodrigo Ziviani Clube dos Criadores de Guppy do Brasil. |
Posts: 4 | Registered on:: February 2006 | IP: Saved | |
| oemer Knows this place ID # 2 |
Posted: 19. June 2006 20:42 Quote PM Mail Homepage Dear members of the WGA and all Guppyfriends, the WGA will start to change the judging and the rules for the World Guppy Contest step by step in the next years. The biggest changes for this year in Prague will be: 1. Instead of one pair of Guppies you need to show 3 males and 1 female. Explanation: One of the main goals of the WGA was to spread genetic material around the world by making it possible to buy the exhibited pairs at the end of the show. This goal has been reached in the last 10 years. It is easy for the Guppybreeder to find one single male and to exhibit it, but it reveals nothing about the quality of his strain. Exhibiting a set of three males (+ 1 female) is harder. So we want to go for more quality at the WGCs. We know that the number of entries will decline but that's OK. 2. Disqualification of fish that are not able to swim correctly or show bad vitality. Explanation: If the Guppybreeder is exhibiting specimens that are too old or have caudals that are hard to carry, the judges need to disqualify the fish. The fish will be removed from the tank. 3. The female will not be judged. Explanation: The experience in the last 10 WGCs show that is not possible to compare females of different strains. We will continue to add more changes in the next WGCs or Zajac show. Regards Ömer |
Posts: 61 | Registered on:: February 2005 | IP: Saved | |
| qualityguppies Makes his first steps here ID # 75 |
Posted: 20. July 2006 20:03 Quote PM Mail Homepage I don't think that the WGC should go to three males and one female. For the people who will send form out of the country will most likely have 1 or more of the males die on the way to the show (due to long shipping time). It will then heart them because they are going to loose points because they would have 2 males not 3.I don’t think that males that cant carry their caudal show be Dq'ed although I do think that they should get pointed down. I agree that the female in an entry should not be judged. ----------------------- http://www.geocities.com/guppyman101/Quality-Guppies.html |
Posts: 10 | Registered on:: July 2006 | IP: Saved | |
| Greg Makes his first steps here ID # 71 |
Posted: 29. July 2006 06:43 Quote PM Mail QualityGuppies: Why is it that guppy breeders/farms in Thailand have NO problem shipping to the U.S.? Just visit Aquabid. No Problem. Send 6 males instead of 3-- I can. You could, too, if you had hardy stock. A breeder in Brazil sent fish here to the U.S that survived an 11-day journey! Why the constant refusal to compromise/agree with the W.G.A.? I think I know. ----------------------- G.C.D. |
Posts: 12 | Registered on:: June 2006 | IP: Saved | |
| qualityguppies Makes his first steps here ID # 75 |
Posted: 31. July 2006 05:31 Quote PM Mail Homepage When you are shipping breeder stock your fish are only 3 1/2 months of age at most which is the type of fish sold on aquabid that are shipped overseas. It is a proven point that young fish take a trip better than an old "show fish". Show Fish are 8+ months of age. Until you can tell me a number of names of people who show consistently at IFGA shows and have no problem getting their old show fish their safely you should think twice about your statement. It is illegal to ship fish out of the USA but people can send fish into the USA. ----------------------- http://www.geocities.com/guppyman101/Quality-Guppies.html |
Posts: 10 | Registered on:: July 2006 | IP: Saved | |
| Greg Makes his first steps here ID # 71 |
Posted: 01. August 2006 07:36 Quote PM Mail Point well made-- my mistake. ----------------------- G.C.D. |
Posts: 12 | Registered on:: June 2006 | IP: Saved | |
| oemer Knows this place ID # 2 |
Posted: 01. August 2006 13:22 Quote PM Mail Homepage Hello, just wanted to add some thoughts to the second point named: 2. Disqualification of fish... It is a fact that IFGA shows mainly take place in a hotel and 95% of people visiting the show are from the clubs (or belong to the hobby). In Europe it's different. We have our shows in public places and many visitors that do not belong to the Guppy scene visit the shows. We have a lot of complaints from both groups that some fish are not able to swim correctly. Explanation: The Exhibitors tens to show old fish (8+ Months) and hopes to get a lot of points for size and spreading of the caudal, etc. Those fish are too old. They leave a bad taste. Judges are to scared to disqualify them. And the result is that the breeder thinks that he does everything right because he breeds to the standard. What a wrong way...! At the WGA shows we will disqualify such fish. It's not good for the image of the hobby and not good for our fish. In the long run we hope to teach the breeder to focus on good vitaly and younger fish and better deportment. Regards Ömer |
Posts: 61 | Registered on:: February 2005 | IP: Saved | |
| qualityguppies Makes his first steps here ID # 75 |
Posted: 01. August 2006 22:03 Quote PM Mail Homepage I agree that younger fish are more active than older fish but that does not mean that they don’t display themselves. Many fish hear at IFGA shows are able to swim just fine. You do get them few that cant swim well but that is why they get pointed down in deportment. Why you see it more in the WGA is because the standers call fore a caudal to have more than a 70’ angle. When you do that when they tail out at their adult age they have a caudal that is to big and they can’t hold it up. When you say public places where are you referring too. We get a number of people other than direct members of the IFGA and other clubs to join in the fun at the shows. We do some advertising and we also get some hotel walk inn’s. I do think that the guppy hobby is welcome to all and it show stay that way. ----------------------- http://www.geocities.com/guppyman101/Quality-Guppies.html |
Posts: 10 | Registered on:: July 2006 | IP: Saved | |
| qualityguppies Makes his first steps here ID # 75 |
Posted: 02. August 2006 01:59 Quote PM Mail Homepage In other words the reason why the fish can not swim is not because of its age but because of the standers it is being shown under. If the fish had a 70' angle than is would have a lighter caudal and it could swim. ----------------------- http://www.geocities.com/guppyman101/Quality-Guppies.html |
Posts: 10 | Registered on:: July 2006 | IP: Saved | |
| Luke Stops by from time to time ID # 13 |
Posted: 04. August 2006 04:46 Quote PM Mail Homepage Omer, We deduct points for deportment not disqualify! If you shipped your fish 10,000 km to a show with water very different to your fish's water and they dont like it would you like it if they got Disqualified??? I am sorry to say that the people who have come to final conclusions on the WGC rules have a very narrow viewpoint on the world strains and complications of getting fish to a show from all over. I dont think you should change anything no trios stay with pairs. Going to trios only satifies the IKGH Breeders who have common shows at the WGC Events! They can use the same entries to enter the WGC. Why have a WGC if you are the same as the IKGH show rules?? Isnt the IKGH open to everyone?? If I wanted to send trios I would sent to any show in the Euro Championship. Why have a separate WGC?? There is no differential identity. Its only the name that changed. I guess you already know the entries will drop appreciably from overseas. You may have mainly European entries but I guess that is already expected  Is Taiwan OK with the Changes? Is Brazil OK with the changes? Is USA OK with the changes? Does it matter to the WGC??BTW shipping fish out of the USA is easier than importing to the USA...whoever says otherwise is misinformed. ----------------------- Luke's Show Guppies, A California Gene Bank! |
Posts: 29 | Registered on:: February 2005 | IP: Saved | |
| oemer Knows this place ID # 2 |
Posted: 04. August 2006 09:23 Quote PM Mail Homepage Dear Luke, Let's try it out for one year. It won't hurt anybody. WGC has gone through 10 years now! And it will continue because there are people who want to see fish from other places and meet people from other countries. We should meet at the WGC in Prague or next year at the Zajac show and make the show rules and the standard together. Regards Ömer |
Posts: 61 | Registered on:: February 2005 | IP: Saved | |
| Luke Stops by from time to time ID # 13 |
Posted: 06. August 2006 17:55 Quote PM Mail Homepage That sounds fair enough Omer, We will need to talk about the practical logistics for future shows. ----------------------- Luke's Show Guppies, A California Gene Bank! |
Posts: 29 | Registered on:: February 2005 | IP: Saved |
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